Phil Fitzpatrick writes - "It's also another reason why I think a spirited debate like the one spiked by Michael and Ward's poems is very worthwhile. It would be good to keep this set of comments going for a while. Maybe there are others out there who want to have a say."

Phil, I have so much to say. I don't know where to begin. I'll start with I do not think all men are savages. I am not a misandrist in any way, shape or form. I appreciate that PNG men play a pivotal role in PNG society. I get it. Mi save tu lo pasin lo ples ,na kastom. Iau nunure .Mi save!

Secondly I will always support a PNG writer male or female I will read, share and buy your work. I will wave my PNG flag beaming with pride around the world. Your words come from a place from deep within.

Ward, you have this thing called freedom of speech and right of assembly. You are able to express your thoughts. You can express your thoughts and creative gifts through poetry. And others that read your work can respond with the same rights.

I have enjoyed your poetry in the past. Did I enjoy this particular poem? I am indifferent. I feel nothing. My indifference is not against you personally. My problem is not with your poem my problem is the way you have responded to the many women who have had valid and clear points regarding your poem.

Your perspective has been heard and read multiple times. Your message is loud and clear you have proven a point. You are great guy we get it. You love women. You love PNG women.

Thank you for not raping us, thank you so much for not molesting our daughters, thank you for not man-handling and groping us on PMVs, in the markets and on dance floors in the clubs. Thank you for not burning us at the stake.

You are commended. Did you want a medal? Or a certificate of appreciation?

Jordan Dean you too are commended for defending your brother. I presume you don't understand what all the fuss is about? Why are so many women up in arms? What's the big deal?

Let me flip the scenario for you. A white guy writes a poem. Yes, I'll use white guy as an example because Ward I've seen your comments against the white man.

Apparently us PNG women folk need to "rausim galas blo waitman".

So maybe you will relate to this analogy.

White guy thinks to himself, "Hmm I'm a decent guy. I have never owned a slave. I have never used the N word. These 'people' have had so many atrocities and horrendous stories of mistreatment, brutality and death because of the colour of their skin."

Then he thinks, "I'll write a poem depicting how great I am and how kind and loving I am to my black brothers and sisters."

Sounds absurd right? This is how you have made women feel this week.

Now I am only one woman and this is only my perspective. I appreciate yours. I don't expect you to appreciate mine.

Violence Against Women (VAW) and Gender Based Violence (GBV) are raw and sensitive subjects in PNG.

Women and men have been fighting for change. I won't fight battles that aren't mine to fight. However the fight against GBV and VAW in PNG is a personal battle.

You don't know me personally, you don't know my story just as you don't know the stories of the many women your comments have hurt and caused discord.

Before you dismiss my perspective or judge me, possibly berate or ridicule me for speaking out. You see my words come from a place within.

My words come from real pain. They are not irrelevant just as your words have relevance so do mine.

The scar between my inner thighs caused by a stab wound that has relevance. Stabbed by a PNG man.

My permanent drooping eye caused by a man's fist that has relevance. Punched by a PNG man.

My permanent injury caused by a kick in the head that has relevance. Kicked by a PNG man.

And still not one part of me feels or thinks that all PNG men are abusive.

That's just my story. There are hundreds of women with similar stories. All relevant.

Lets just leave it. You have spoken. The women have spoken. Your friends have spoken. And now I have added my opinion, thoughts and lik lik two toea.

Enough now. Nur vue.

"Noken mekim ol bikpla tok taim yu no save
Lon kastom na pasin blo ples."

Julie's words ring very true and echo what was a mantra carried in every kiap's kit bag.

No kiap worth their salt ever went into a new village without first finding out the cultural context and the social taboos.

The blundering kiap with the big stick and big mouth is largely a figment of imagination. We were there to learn and then act on what we found out.

Strangely enough and possibly because we were outsiders we were also able to talk to the women. And they were generally not shy in making their views known to us. I imagine some men had stern words with their women after we left.

That all might sound irrelevant now but when I was helping Rashmii to edit 'My Walk to Equality' I picked up on the same vibe. That's one reason I think it's an important book.

It's also another reason why I think a spirited debate like the one spiked by Michael and Ward's poems is very worthwhile.

It would be good to keep this set of comments going for a while.

Maybe there are others out there who want to have a say.

That's good stuff to add dimension to our conversation. Thanks, Jordan, for sharing it.

While conducting agricultural surveys in many isolated communities across PNG my team regularly comes face to face with gender and equity issues.

Gender and equity are mainstreamed into development policy and are often crosscutting within our extension, research and development programs.

[We don't have a choice! You smart ones are lucky.]

As you know I'm not an expert on gender and gender equity, but what I do understand about approaching these 'issues' is that it's always a social, and therefore, a cultural negotiation.

[Most folks have no idea the trouble we have to go to, except maybe Phil and the kiaps. Tasol em ol waitman, eh laka.]

There are many elements involved and, to each community, there is always a sense of uniqueness, a feeling and expression of difference in their own way of living.

It's a challenge talking about social similarities in those situations.

Also it's less useful, as Julie Mota expresses, to try to impose a 'foreign' paradigm in a local context, especially a rural one.

Good outcomes are often achieved when programs are inclusive of the local context of core societal elements including gender and gender equity, as defined in their own terms.

Nevertheless, for specific needs of identified groups an active bias, or more aptly (gender) favouring, is required and therefore promoted in order to achieve a critical output/outcome, which may be entirely dependent on doing so.

We've found that a straightforward approach and an open attitude to organising gender favouring activities is a positive way to negotiate an otherwise tricky situation.

One starting point is discussing the roles of men and women and the services and value which they each offer to their households and the community.

Your poem, Jordan, is a good expression of changing status and value placed on women.

There's always a balance to be struck and for critical development needs the women's role and their interests is often one that needs championing.

There's lots more involved in our agricultural program/project planning process and thank goodness I don't do it all myself.

Personally I find it much simpler to feed my pigs so I'll leave off here.

Most likely, to my wiser colleagues, all my gibberish probably has nothing at all to do with VAW anyhow.

A poem written by Julie Mota in her book 'Cultural Refugees'.....

"GENDER EQUITY BLO PLES"

Pasin rispek em stap lo ples
‘Gender Equity’ em tok ples blo narapla
Yumi asples kastom em stap
Kam na lukim
Ples waswas blo ol man em stap
Haus boi em stap
Ol ples blo ol meri em stap em yet tu
Nau yumi harim tok inglis lon gender
Na yumi stailim tok olsem em niupla samtin
Aiyo sori stret kam lon ples na luk save
Lon sindaun blo stretpla pasin
Blo kamapim gutpla sindaun
Waswas lon tanget, kilim pik
Mekim kastom blo ol pikinini
Na luksave gut lon ol tok blo bik man meri
Bihain yu stretim tok pisin blo yu
Save supia isave sut bek sapos yu no lukaut gut
Noken mekim ol bikpla tok taim yu no save
Lon kastom na pasin blo ples.

Hahahaaaa.... we still want PNG men to be savages, ay? Fine with me.

I suppose if he'd kept his ego out of it....it might be ok

I love women
Here is my sister, there is my aunt, she is my niece
I call her mama or mum, and that one is my friend

I love women
I say they’re all wonderful, I say they’re all worthy
And I love it when we’re together in the kitchen

I love women
Some are good nurses, and some are inspirational
Instructors, most of them are miles ahead of the men

I love women
Some go to church, some go to clubs, some weave their bilums
Whatever it is, brown, black or bronze, she is the queen

I love women
I see them in offices, at home, or marketplace
They’re my purpur, their beauty’s everyplace, not hidden

I love women
When she falls I help her, help fix her broken things,

I love women
They are respected, they’re valued, they are encouraged
Most don’t see that until men are gone and all is done

I love women
When they’re born the hauslain rejoices, husbands are blessed

I love women
It is special to be a woman.

Two valid observations. I rest my case. Cheers Michael.

I'm very glad that my poem, 'We are Dying', was so upsetting to draw this reaction, and now debate, on Wardley's non-response.

Call it dirty laundry if you wish. At least we know it needs another wash.

Violence against women appears in every society's dirty laundry, so I'm not convinced of any Western bigotry, unless the argument is that 'their way of doing things is not the same as ours'.

We have different values in PNG society and/or different ways of upholding and living by those values.

In our society VAW was and is an accepted norm.

The underlying value was obedience to the male head of household. Today this position is upheld by Christian teachings.

It's fitting that Wardley has reflected on the good men in PNG society. (And its a pity Christ did not marry, or did he?)

PNG men live in fear of losing ground in their position as head of household.

They're prone to throwing tantrums about it. That's why everyone is treading softly around VAW issues.

Although some of Wardley's references need a good dose of open mindedness to be palatable in PNG context, good men exist. I don't see anyone disputing that fact.

"Should we let the actions of the many tarnish the few? I don't think that's fair."

Unfortunately, this is the way things work in how we perceive each other.

And really Wardley, it's not as simple as 'good or bad' or, as you correctly surmise 'goodness'.

Lots of bad actions = a bad social outcome.

Its not subjective once the overall outcome paints a clear picture that VAW in PNG is rampant, our personal feelings, tastes, or opinions don't change a damn thing.

How long do we wash their dirty laundry to clean it up for display?

I believe the good men are strong enough in character and conviction to not feel as vulnerable and under attack as Wardley suggests. Or they should be.

As for defending 'good men', well, that's not in my interest, and would be self aggrandising since, where VAW is concerned, I'm with the good guys.

Undoubtedly not all is bad in PNG, and I didn't think that was the argument.

As for marketing and promotion, I'm not much into commercial activities, but you and I, Wardley, both good men, and poets, play an important role of reflecting our society truthfully, good and bad, without forcefully moralising our intentions.

Our readers discern the subjective 'goodness' in our reflections by our unflinching honesty and from what they know of themselves and their own society too.

"In PNG, its a death-row sentence being a woman."

"In Oz, it's dirt poor and homelessness for fifty year old women."

Regarding your clown insult to my funny friend, she is a waka voyager, a poet and a speaking Chief, with the right to address formal Samoan customary court of chiefs.

Compared to her, you and I are the court jesters. But I'm sure she excuses your slight.

So all PNG men are harass women? Do i need to get you glasses?

Here's a comment from my funny friend which has some serious value.

"He does not offer balance. Because a woman's life does not receive balanced treatment in PNG. The numbers show the reality of it.

"The number of women suffering abuse, lack of personal security of women, lack of women's voices in government, governance. Men are part of the solution, but not by championing themselves as heroes but by championing a better life, rights to justice, no harm, for women.

"His poetry echoes those old poems you showed me of PNG, where women are seen as property. He presents a case where he is good at keeping his woman happy. What will he do when a man beats his daughter? His son beats his wife? Sigh."

Rashmii Bell's book 'My Walk to Equality' makes exactly the same point in many of its essays and poems, Ward.

Come on, Phil. It's too late for a good morning but... Goood morning, sir.

Two eyes are better than one, and so are two poets, Michael.

I am offering another perspective. What I'm saying is that not all men are violent towards women. There are men out there who work very hard to feed, clothe and provide for their wives and children. This poem is for them.

I don't see it as a response, but another equally valid perspective. I am not questioning your observation. It is true.

Women have suffered a lot from stupid men (and vice versa). That's an issue that needs to be addressed. While we're doing that we must not neglect the men who actually care for women. They need to be applauded.

We need to present a balanced perspective when it comes to such issues. Again, it's a complementary perspective -- it's meant to run parallel to your poem, not perpendicular.

That's a very responsive non-response, Wardley, and it's valuable to have another side of the story.

Really, the issue is not about 'love' or 'hate', it's about the underlying behaviour and attitude of/towards violence against women, particularly sexual violence.

A man who beats his woman will still say that he loves her.

Some men (and women too!) even say that they beat their partners out of the frustration and anger aroused by jealous or wronged love.

Women have been beaten to death by men who might seem like or are usually gentlemen in public.